Back To - KOI Health and Disease

Appreciate help and advice how to treat my sick koi with raise scale , one side more serious and with red scale and ulcer the other side is not that serious. the stomach is big. I have try Epsom salt with heater then water turn smelly. I have tried Ocean Free internal Bateria & Ulcer away all seem not getting better
I read many posting and it seem that this is Dropsy but some of he medication seem unable to get in my area(Miri, sarawak) . Like Tarzian or Ocyteracyline or Formalin .

The sick koi is in Q-tank of 100 liters water with air stone only, no salt no medication, awaiting your kind and helpful adv. badly Picutre attached

It sounds very much like dropsy, which is difficult to treat successfully. While seeking medications I would suggest slowly raising salt in the q-tank to 0.9% (yes, I really did say 0.9) over a period of 3 days and get some medicated kio food. It is doubtful it will recover as this type of infection is within the internal organs and extremely hard to kill, but you can try. KOSHER SALT, not epsom.
If it appears to be suffering and not improving the humane thing to do would be to add some oil of clove to the water to put it to sleep, bag it in the same water, and place it in the freezer. It will pass quietly away.

It is not dropsy that your koi is having but a bacterial infection of motile aeromonas disease caused by Aeromonas Hydrophilia .

Do a bath treatment with 30-50g of terramycin and 5kg of salt to 1000L of water for 5-7 days.

I suggesst you go to koivet and read up on dropsy. You have describe it to a tee and this cannot be cured. What it is in a bacterial infection in the kidneys and just trying to get him well will prolong his suffering dechoong please read his post again.
thank you very much on all reply and adv.

3rd day in Q-tank, she passed blood and 4th day, she left. any idea why pass blood?
overdose of medication or salt. one more question - a 18 inches koi need how many liters of water for Q-tank? this kind of infection really make me very very upset for I experienced many times but none of the gold fish or koi recovered ever Dennis, Pls adv. where to buy Terramycin?

Dropsy is an infection of the internal organs, which has usually progressed too far by the time the scales start to stand up and bloating begins. Passing blood was likely due to internal bleeding caused by the kidneys deteriorating.
Bactreria and Viruses are opportunistic predators that generally need a "weak" host. If your water conditions are not good your fish will be at risk to infections of many types as a result. Since you have had this problem a number of times it would indicate your pond water is not in the best condition and a home for bad bacteria. I would suggest salting your pond to 0.3% (slowly over a period of 24-48 hrs) and keep it there for about a week as salt kills most parasites and bacteria. Reduce feeding your fish during this time and remove any salt sensitive plants. This will allow most of the unwanted visitors to be killed off.
Once you have done this you can do some partial water changes to lower the salt level to around 0.1% and replace all of your sensitive plants. You might want to consider switching to medicated koi food for a few weeks as well.
It would be good to know your water parameters so we can help you prevent this from repeating in the future.

Hi Larz1
Tq for adv.
will do and watch out as what u adv.
may be pls tell me 1350 liters water need how many lb or kg of salt when you mean by 0.3%

Lets get this straight. There are differences in the physical symptoms between a Motile Aeromonas infection and Dropsy .

Motile Aeromonas :

Causes Red Sore and Scale Extrusion

This disease occurs throughout the year, especially in low water temperature period but also sporadically. Infectivity is low but sometimes outbreaks occur in polluted water conditions. Those that are heavily infected and resemble a pine cone usually don't heal over.

Red Sore:
Typical disease signs are hemorrhagic red splotches, often involving scale extrusion on skin and fins. Infected fish become anorexic and sometimes exhibit pop-eye and/or expansion od abdomen. Abdominal skin of heavily infected fish becomes red and then detaches, hemorrhages and finally culminates into ulcers.

Scale Extrusion:
Also known as "pine cone disease". Scales of infected fish raise up and heavily infected fish resemble a "pine cone". Disease signs are hemorrhaging of the skin, anorexia, expansion of the abdomen and pop-eye. Dissecting heavily infected fish reveals that there is congestion if intestinal tubule and ascites.

Dropsy :

Disease signs are swelling and sunken eyes, and raised scales are sometimes found. Affected fish stop swimming, lose the body balance, and all of them come up to the water surface at once. Finally the fish float around the water inlet or outlet.

Epithelia on the gills of affected fish becomes thick extensively and presses the capillary vessels, resulting in the blockage of blood circulation. Morever, the metabolic function of salt is also damaged.

----------------------------

So Judy, why don't you read through the symptoms described by larthui again and tell me if you still think it's dropsy.

I still SAY it is Dropsy because of the raised scales and swollen body .

And might I add that Dropsy signs are eyes bulge out or what is called pop eye and scales are raised and stand out from the body rather like a pin cone. Dropsy can be caused not only because of liver or heart failure but a bacterial invasion. I only agree that it is a bactrial dropsy and he is having trouble with a lot of his koi because of this.

That is my story and I am sticking to it He could also have aeromonas bacteria in his water, either way it is still a bacterial infection right? End results Dropsy.
Judy

Dennis, I really think all of us are right. Did not mean for my reply to come across smart, sorry ok. Im not alway right and I am sure I will be wrong again in the future . Please dont take me wrong I dont like anything that causes trouble. Sometimes I just say what I think and it offends people. I have been know to stick my foot in my mouth a few times
Judy

Dear all, the initial impression that I have from Larthui's description (... sick koi with raise scale , one side more serious and with red scale and ulcer the other side is not that serious. the stomach is big ...) of his sick koi is that it is in the process of developing kidney failure (dropsy) eventhough not yet at an advanced stage. The cause of this is the infection (ulcer) on one side of the body which causes the scales on that side to be raised more than the others. So I guess that makes all of you correct. Cheers .
Duku friendly

Just a small question. This Motile Aeromonas infection, could this lead to Dropsy or other way around. If so what can cause this and how can we prevent this even water quality is 100% and quarantine proc are always there

Sorry but that link will not take you to the page I wanted you to read. You can type in Drospy and Motile Aeromonas and scroll down and find IVCUM. Sample Manuscript and that will be what I wanted you to read.
Judy

I agree completely. Dropsy is not the cause of the infection, it is the result of any one of many infections. Possible causes include internal infections from bacteria or virus or even internal parasites. Dropsy is only the result of the organs leaking fluid caused by whatever the infection may be, which is what causes the swelling, bulging eyes, and scales standing out from the skin being stretched. Motile Aeromonas is one of many possible initial causes. It seems we are all making a distinction without a difference